DMA Problem with ROMBoards

[Bryce]

Hi beaker,
       that's really good for me and bad for TFM. This is exactly what happens on my CPC too, which means it's not my CPC that's broken (the good bit), unfortunately it means for TFM that something is a miss in his FOS, more experimenting will be required I think, to find out what's freezing FOS on the Plus. I tried the same MegaFlash and FOS on a Classic CPC last night and it works as expected.

Bryce.

[arnoldemu]

It means it should be fine if the cartridge software is doing what it's supposed to, but might go wrong if the cartridge software is trying to page it's ROMs using ROM numbers  < 15 (but there really isn't anything you could do about that)

and the diagnostic cartridge does exactly this.

[00WReX]

Sorry, I'm coming in on this conversation after only a quick read...

But looking at the screenshots from beaker, FuturOS is in ROM positions 10, 18, 19, 20.
I'm pretty sure FutureOS is fixed to positions 10, 11, 12, 13.
The second screenshot would also indicate this is the case as only the one FutureOS line appears in the boot screen...usually you see 4 lines.

Probably why the FutureOS desktop is crashing in this case...

Cheers,
Shane

[Bryce]

No, the FOS Loader installs them to those positions and as I mentioned above, that configuration works perfectly on the Classic 6128. Only the first FOS ROM will be "seen" by the CPC, because it only scans the first 16 ROMs on start, but FOS will (should) still work fine like that.

Bryce.

[00WReX]

Ahh, cool...I've never used the loader to install them, only manually assigned them...and for that the ROM table on the wiki mentions 10-13 fixed.

Sorry...please continue 

Cheers,
Shane

[Bryce]

Yeah I saw that on the ROM_Table list too, but I don't think it's correct. You can get the Auto-installer here: FutureOS - The revolutionary UltraOS for the CPC6128 and CPCPlus (very first link at the top).

Bryce.

[andycadley]

If FutureOS is loading fine but not responding to any keypresses, could it just be the age old Plus keyscanning issue?

[beaker]

I swapped the roms to the positions 10, 11, 12 and 13 just in case and it crashed in a whole new way... It didn't even get to the desktop.

[Bryce]

@andy: I wasn't aware of an "age old Plus keysanning issue" do you have more info on this?

@beaker (and TFM): I suspect that's a different issue. I also tried moving ROMs last night with the ROManager and the ROMs were corrupted after the move. Try manually installing the 3 ROMs in positions 11-13.

Bryce.

[andycadley]

When scanning the keyboard you're supposed to put the PSG into an 'inactive' state at various points in order to clear the latches. It doesn't matter on old CPC's if you do this, because the version of the 8255 they have does it automatically and so some coders skipped it to save a bit of time. However it does matter on the Plus, because the ASIC emulation needs you to do this to function properly. This was probably the #1 cause of old software being incompatible with the Plus machines.

Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource has details on keyscanning, with the appropriate steps required on the Plus highlighted.

[TFM]

Thanks TFM for the document links.

Your are welcome 

OK, I want to check I am not being stupid as mine also crashed as well as soon as I loaded the desktop. Let me know if there's a better way of doing this as I am guessing all the way here. I downloaded FutureOS_System_.8_Preview!!!.zip from FutureOS - The revolutionary UltraOS for the CPC6128 and CPCPlus and extracted 180 FutureOS-ROMs .8 English 2011-10-10.dsk which I opened in the HxC floppy emulator software and exported to a .hfe file. I then used disckit3 in cpm to copy the image from the HxC to a real floppy in drive a. First I tried to use the rom manger from basic (-rma) to copy the rom images myself but that didn't really work when I typed |fdesk so I ran the disc.bas and chose option 7 even though it was meant for the original 6128. This put the roms in the following positions:

...snip

Please use the installer. The installer is needed to adapt the hardcoded ROM numbers in the ROMs (&FF00-&FFFF). If you don't use the installer if will not run (IMHO). (The preselected ROM numbers are 10,11,12, 13 - the installer changes them to 10, 18,19,20).

When I run |fdesk I get the following screen but the CPC appears frozen. The pointer won't move using either the cursor keys nor the using the direction buttons on the pad.

Please use the |OS command to use FutureOS regularly.

If you use the |fdesk command then you lack 48 KB of space, because FutureOS saves the first 48 KB of RAM and reinstalls them after leaving it. If you work with 128 KB, then 48 KB is a lot. So better use the |OS command.  Also the |fdesk command can cause problems in few cases, this depends wether other ROMs are connected of not.

If you start the installer from the original disc image, then you will have no problem to install and use FutureOS.

In case you like your personal version of FutureOS for the MegaFlash with ROM numbers selected by yourself, just PM me.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.

[TFM]

If FutureOS is loading fine but not responding to any keypresses, could it just be the age old Plus keyscanning issue?

Well, no. The FutureOS for non-Plus CPCs runs on both, CPC old generation and 6128 Plus. It issue here is clearly the assignment of the ROM numbers.

Explained in detail: The Installation disc provides programs to install the OS to a ROM-RAM-Box, a SF2 and the new MegaFlash. However the installer installs them at 10-13 on a RRB, but at 10, 18-20 on a MegaFlash.
The ROM files on disc are hardcoded to 10-13, so you can install them by had to 10,11,12 and 13. But if you want to install them to 10, 18, 19 and 20 (MegaFlash suggested numbers) then the installer program is needed, because it changes the ROM files to work a the new places.

I know this hardcoded ROM numbers are a bit nasty, but as long as you use the installer on disc (which works well) there will be no problems. The reason for using hardcoded numbers is a drastic gain in speed.

[TFM]

... I also tried moving ROMs last night with the ROManager and the ROMs were corrupted after the move.

Don't move the FutureOS ROMs with the ROManager (for FutureOS), that's like pulling away the carpet you are staing on.

And don't move FutureOS ROMs in general, because they have hardcoded numbers. You can patch the installer if you want other ROM numbers (both BASIC and MC part!). More easy: Tell me your desired numbers, I patch the installer for you. 

Try manually installing the 3 ROMs in positions 11-13.

Please don't! Please ALWAYS use the installer! It's needed to adapt the hardcoded ROM numbers inside all ROM files.

[beaker]

Please use the installer. The installer is needed to adapt the hardcoded ROM numbers in the ROMs (&FF00-&FFFF). If you don't use the installer if will not run (IMHO). (The preselected ROM numbers are 10,11,12, 13 - the installer changes them to 10, 18,19,20).
...
Let me know if I can help in any other way.

Hi TFM, thanks for offer.

I removed the roms using rom manager and used the installer and selected option 7 and followed the instructions:

[attach=2]

I then checked the position of the ROMs using the rom manager software and it is indeed at 10, 18-20.

[attach=5]

I then typed |OS as you suggest and FutureOS loaded but the CPC appears to have locked up.

[attach=3]

I couldn't use the pad or the cursor keys to move the cursor around.

[attach=4]

[TFM]

Oh, that's strange!!!

Some stupid quesions: You use a regualar 6128 - Yes. Ok.

Hmmm.... Is there a possibility that the disc image is corrupted? (Maybe you can download it directly and use it on disc (CPCDiskXP), without the HxC, even if I see no reason for prolems here).


Ok, can you just save the four FutureOS ROMs (using ROManager or whatever), put them on a DSK file and send/email the DSK to me (futuresoft at gmx . de)? Then I can check if there is a problem.


Mystic mystery...

[beaker]

Aye, it is strange to be sure...

It's pretty much a standard 6128+ with a tape mod and Parados 1.1 hacked cartridge that came with the machine. It's just got the megaflash and HxC connected as you can see in the attached photo. I'll try and grab a copy of the roms I have installed - not quite sure how I transfer them to a dsk file at the moment... 

I'll also look into the CPCDiskXP and try another disk to rule that out, although it's also strange that Bryce is having the same issues which is why I tried my machine. I'll let you know how it goes 

[TFM]

Nice setup btw!    Looks great! 



Well, if the same installation works on the CPC old generation, then this would point to the possibility, that only _SOME_ 6128 Plus have problems. (And the nature of this problem is unknown to me, maybe it's connected to ASIC revisions. But we can elucidate this later).

[fatbob]

I have just tested a new download of FutureOS on my 6128+ with Megaflash  and had the exact same problems as reported by Beaker & Bryce.

[TFM]

I have just tested a new download of FutureOS on my 6128+ with Megaflash  and had the exact same problems as reported by Beaker & Bryce.

Did you use the version for CPC old generaton or for CPC Plus? (I mean the installation). (Well, the Plus version is German-only right now.). So you did probably use the version for the CPC old generation, right?

[fatbob]

Did you use the version for CPC old generaton or for CPC Plus? (I mean the installation). (Well, the Plus version is German-only right now.). So you did probably use the version for the CPC old generation, right?

I have just checked the German version as well (using option 8 on the menu) and get the same Lock-Up. The only difference is on the German version the cursor is Cyan.

I have tried it with the standard Burning Rubber/OS cartridge (the only one I have) and with PARADOS selected in rom slot 7 but sadly get the same result with both.

[TFM]

I just simulated the installation process of the FutureOS for CPC old generation with WinCPC (in WinCPC ROMs 16-31 are a mirror of ROMs 0-15!). Everything went well. I assume it's a 6128Plus specific problem.

The DOS (Parados/Amsdos) doesn't matter since the installer uses the BASIC command LOAD to load files. And IMHO every DOS does support that.

Can somebody please do the following:

- Install FutureOS into the MegaFlash on an CPC old Generation (CPCoG)
- Check if it works. If yes...
- Move the MegaFlash to a 6128Plus
- Check agian if it works

This could tell us more.

[beaker]

unfortunately it means for TFM that something is a miss in his FOS, more experimenting will be required I think, to find out what's freezing FOS on the Plus. I tried the same MegaFlash and FOS on a Classic CPC last night and it works as expected.

I think Bryce has already tried this...

[TFM]

Ok, so it's definitively a problem of the CPC Plus hardware.

Well, I can access my Plus in two month    But that's actually not that bad, since I see it only once a year.

[beaker]

Cool   

What's the story with your Plus?

[TFM]

Cool   

What's the story with your Plus?

Old story. I live in USA since 3 years, 5 months, 14 days and counting... And all my CPC equipment is in good old Munich. Now I have two weeks of years leave evey year... And that's the time I have to check all that stuff I created on emulators. Hopefully I'll find a job in Germany soon (or any Europen county where German don't get hunted down due to our Chancellor  ). Can't wait to go to Spanish & French meetings!


EDIT: Back to topic! I just used Markus new JavaCPC (which now supports 32 ROMs!!! Great Work Markus!!!). And everything runs well. Again this result points to a speciality of the 6128Plus. But not every Plus I do assume.